New task at current level

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New task at current level

Postby tsiragusa » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:06 am

I am a new user so this may already be possible, but a suggestion would be when adding a new task in the initial WBS creation page, to set the indent level to the previous task. Excellent software. Thanks.
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Re: New task at current level

Postby tiberiu » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:47 pm

Dear Thom,

This is subject to users preference... If we would implement it the way you want you would have to make an "Outdent" to get back to a lower outline level.The most used way of creating a WBS is for users to first create a simple list of tasks and then just select groups of tasks and hit "Indent". This is more natural that having to make an "Outdent".

But we shall keep your suggestion in mind if more users will as for it in the future (you are the first one :) ).

Tiberiu
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Re: New task at current level

Postby Adz » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:41 pm

I must say I would like this feature too - generally there are more subtasks than "group" tasks. If the next task stays at the same indent level automatically, then yes you will need to outdent occasionally to start a new group, but that would happen a lot less than the other way around. If the concern is for users who prefer it as it is - then perhaps introduce it with a preferences option so users can choose?

This is actually the standard behaviour in MS-Project, and I suspect many of your users have migrated from that software.......... :-)

Thanks
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Re: New task at current level

Postby lucian » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:57 pm

So that's the second request for this ... :)
One question though, are you guys aware there is shortcut to indent/outdent tasks (on windows, Ctrl-LeftArrow for example will indent, Right/Up/Down work too) ?
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Re: New task at current level

Postby Adz » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:32 pm

Yes - fully aware how to indent etc - however, it is still a bit of a pain every time you hit return to start on another subtask to then line it up by indenting, before (or after) the task. Likewise, I know you can indent (or out) in blocks - which is also useful. The thing is though - if you know the rough indents before you start entering the tasks - its useful to do it as you enter them, and keeping the level automatically greatly improves the speed and accuracy of entering them (for me anyway). Also if you have a long straight "shopping" list of tasks entered (with a view to doing the indenting afterwards), having to then spot the group level tasks and then indent under them can also be a little cumbersome, especially if there are many nested sub-levels.

:)
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Re: New task at current level

Postby lucian » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:10 pm

ok, we'll discuss the issue here for the next version
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Re: New task at current level

Postby Adz » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:59 pm

Fantastic. Would be greatly appreciated. :)

And thx for such prompt responses.
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Re: New task at current level

Postby lucian » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:25 am

OK, so there was a new discussion on this here with the product manager and a bunch of other guys ... :)
The main ideas were something like this:
- the oudent of a task is a "tricky/heavy" operation, user should really understand the concept, etc
- one could need automatic indent at the start of the planning when he is filling the "children" list; once you have indented a task as a child, the following would be automatically indented so that could help. Still, the same outcome is obtained if user introduce the children as a simple list and indent then all at the end with a block indent. This last approach won't trigger a mandatory oudent at the start of the next group of tasks (which we say it's to be avoided if we all agree "oudent" is a "seldom used operation)
Not yet a conclusion here on the subject, some are definitely preferring the current way, some the new proposed way (MS Project like) - all agree a setting for this would rather confuse a new PM user
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Re: New task at current level

Postby Adz » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:41 pm

- the oudent of a task is a "tricky/heavy" operation, user should really understand the concept, etc


Not really sure what is being said here. From my viewpoint - it's not "tricky / heavy" at present - just a little inefficient (and irritating). Pressing return after entering a task, for me, should move the cursor to the next line at the same indent level as the previous. Most software does this, in that previous formatting etc is maintained / inherited to the next line following a Return, e.g. MS-Word, MS-Project etc. Again, just my humble opinion.

- one could need automatic indent at the start of the planning when he is filling the "children" list; once you have indented a task as a child, the following would be automatically indented so that could help. Still, the same outcome is obtained if user introduce the children as a simple list and indent then all at the end with a block indent. This last approach won't trigger a mandatory oudent at the start of the next group of tasks (which we say it's to be avoided if we all agree "oudent" is a "seldom used operation)


I don't think there would ever be an automated / triggered outdent, Hitting Return would go to the next line at the same indent level as the previous line. If the list of subtasks above it are complete, the user would then click the outdent button (one or more times as appropriate) to start a new group task (or just a single task at that level). The main time this approach would be used is at the initial brain dumping stage when you list all the tasks you can think of as a starting point. As you create a task, realising it has subtasks, you indent after it to start brain dumping that group task's sub-tasks. One of those subtasks may be a group task so you would indent again - just hitting Return as you list those subtasks. Then you outdent once to return to parent level and then carry on (further indenting / outdenting as you go). Once the initial list is created, you can then re-order / indent / outdent as required (using the controls that are already there) to refine that list as required.

all agree a setting for this would rather confuse a new PM user


Again - not sure I agree. The settings could be on the Options page in a section with the title "New Task indentation behaviour". Underneath a short description could say, "Check the boxes where you wish the indent level to be maintained when moving to a new empty task (via the Return key or arrow keys)." And then underneath that have 2 check boxes labelled "WBS View", and "Gantt View". Now if a new PM user does not understand that setting, then they are unlikely to care about that functionality (so no loss - after all a new PM won't really understand a lot of the options until they gain some experience). However, as they do get used to the software, they are likely to understand what some of these options means, and may well change the options to see what happens. Again - if introduced, I would suggest the defaults are such that existing users (and new ones) see no difference unless they make a conscious decision to change the defaults.

Just my view - glad its causing some healthy debate there :D
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Re: New task at current level

Postby lucian » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:43 pm

It's not the first debate on the issue ... :)
Some guys are fiercely going for MS style, there are a few which still argue it's trickier for a new user to grasp it (we do have questions on support sometime like "how can I indent a task ?!", believe it or not :) ) Guys which are concern with the new PM users perspective are arguing an experienced PM like you won't have a problem either way while you are aware about block indent, shortcuts, etc
For me to be honest, the "MS Word" like is natural enough (though I have to admit, as you also agreed, the outdent operation is annoying :) ; and it becomes mandatory with MS approach :) )
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